Posts by Crisis of Conscience

42

Today's WT Study Stupidity About Df'ing

by metatron in

jw
friends

in today's watchtower study, towards the end, you had one of those typical comments by a former df'ed witness expressing appreciation for being shunned.

these comments always remind me of a stalinist show trial in which the accused enthusiastically accepts being executed for the greater good (probably to save his family).. after this kind of nonsense is expressed, you will get a flurry of self righteous comments emphasizing how important it is to shun your disfellowshipped relatives, so that they can come back in the "truth".. oh, really?

do any of these people raising their hand realize that, if the "success" of disfellowshipping depends on your shunning, then the "repentant" person is "coming back in the truth" for the sake of their relatives -and not because of fearing jehovah !!!???.

Crisis of Conscience

@ Sizemik - I share your sentiments. I have contacted a few DFed people and let them know that their JW status means nothing to me. I merely seek their friendship and apologize for my disillusion.

I asked my wife recently a question. That is, if her DFed friend, that actually used to be a best friend, came and asked her for help desperately needed, would she make herself available? She responded she didn't know. So then I asked, if it were a "wordly" person and they were in desperate need of help, would she make herself available? Without hesitation, she said yes.

I asked if the the reason for not helping her former best friend was because 3 men declared her a sinner and as of yet had not declared her forgiven or repentant. She said no, it had more to do with Jehovah's arrangement. I mentioned that while there could be a basis of DFing based on the scriptures, who sets the precedent for who is forgiven, or for how long it should be that they are rejected and ignored by everyone?

Of course no answer. I said that then she was willing to follow something that could be based on the Bible, claim to be a Bible student and yet then also follow something that is not in the Bible, but made up by man and call it Jehovah's arrangement. I ended with that as I could tell she was uncomfortable.

What a loving arrangement JW's have, indeed!

CoC

24

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 05-01-2011 WT Study (LAWLESNESS)

by blondie in

jw
friends

do you hate lawlessness?.

can the elders enforce any laws since they cannot read hearts?

love one another.

Crisis of Conscience

Oh dear Blondie! How do you tolerate this nonsense?! An unbelievable load of crap in this study. Anyhow, thanks for your review.

The DFing section particularly annoyed me. I already commented on it in another thread specifically addressing that subject. ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/209741/1/Todays-WT-Study-Stupidity-About-Dfing )

But I will repost my thoughts below.

I find it interesting that DFing is a punishment for a crime committed by an unrepentant person. People in the real world are also punished for crimes.

But isn't it weird, that even as imperfect as "worldly" people are, they are still willing to offer their help to a convict?

For example, while a convict serves their term, they are given rights. Family is often able to visit with them as well as friends, even if it is on a limited basis. Also, some sort of rehab is offered during the sentence term, and perhaps even after, to help the person avoid the errors in the future (assuming they will be released, and yet regardless of that, they still have rights) and so that they can be better equipped to be readmitted into society. Again, I state, imperfect people do that.

And yet, in the congregation, full of imperfect people, where most "crimes" don't even come close to deserving literal jail time, upon conviction, you lose EVERYTHING. No friends, no family, no contact. And while "serving the term of your conviction", there is no rehab offered by those that did the convicting, nor are others encouraged or allowed to help. The rehab is only offered after the convicted "comes back to Jehovah".

SO, who has it wrong? Imperfect, caring, concerned individuals, or "Jehovah's organization"? I'll take number 1 for $500, please, Alex.

It's definitely noticeable now the direction the society wants to take on this subject. Sickening.

CoC

42

Today's WT Study Stupidity About Df'ing

by metatron in

jw
friends

in today's watchtower study, towards the end, you had one of those typical comments by a former df'ed witness expressing appreciation for being shunned.

these comments always remind me of a stalinist show trial in which the accused enthusiastically accepts being executed for the greater good (probably to save his family).. after this kind of nonsense is expressed, you will get a flurry of self righteous comments emphasizing how important it is to shun your disfellowshipped relatives, so that they can come back in the "truth".. oh, really?

do any of these people raising their hand realize that, if the "success" of disfellowshipping depends on your shunning, then the "repentant" person is "coming back in the truth" for the sake of their relatives -and not because of fearing jehovah !!!???.

Crisis of Conscience

I find it interesting that DFing is a punishment for a crime committed by an unrepentant person. People in the real world are also punished for crimes.

But isn't it weird, that even as imperfect as "worldly" people are, they are still willing to offer their help to a convict?

For example, while a convict serves their term, they are given rights. Family is often able to visit with them as well as friends, even if it is on a limited basis. Also, some sort of rehab is offered during the sentence term, and perhaps even after, to help the person avoid the errors in the future (assuming they will be released, and yet regardless of that, they still have rights) and so that they can be better equipped to be readmitted into society. Again, I state, imperfect people do that.

And yet, in the congregation, full of imperfect people, where most "crimes" don't even come close to deserving literal jail time, upon conviction, you lose EVERYTHING. No friends, no family, no contact. And while "serving the term of your conviction", there is no rehab offered by those that did the convicting, nor are others encouraged or allowed to help. The rehab is only offered after the convicted "comes back to Jehovah".

SO, who has it wrong? Imperfect, caring, concerned individuals, or "Jehovah's organization"? I'll take number 1 for $500, please, Alex.

CoC

20

When did the WT say that homosexual extramarital affairs were not grounds for divorce?

by doubtful in

i've heard it said that the watchtower printed an official stance on what qualifies as "adultery" at one point in the 1970s??

they said that a woman was not free to divorce her husband if her husband had sex with another man or with an animal, as such sexual relations did not constitute "becoming one flesh"... apparently vaginal intercourse is the only means of fusing two human bodies together.... what watchtower is such a doctrine found in?

is it in the wt cd-rom?

Crisis of Conscience

Marked
Great topic. Thanks!
Coc

9

Diary of an Ex-Mormon- Must see for all Jw's still on the fence.

by whereami in

hear the story of a young teenager indoctrinated into the mormon church and culture, growing to a man who would one day reject everything he'd been taught to believe.

the similarities to the jw's are uncanny.. .

stan's full story can be found in written form at:http://www.exmormon.org/whylft79.htm.

Crisis of Conscience

Excellent video!! And indeed eerily similar feelings to doubting JWs.
I would just like to highlight a very powerful thing this man mentioned in the video. He said, "Free the mind, and the @€€ will follow." Words to remember.

CoC

15

"The Last Popes of the Watchtower"

by leavingwt in

i just learned of this new book at the free minds store.

i purchased a copy and i'm enjoying it.. .

"for a 1218-page pdf file of the watchtower quotes being made currently that are used to control the masses, download the brand new and very large compendiary, anonymously written, the last popes of the watchtower.

Crisis of Conscience

That last quote from the 2/1/96 Watchtower is interesting. It says to "cut off anything that feeds such doubts".

Funny part is, how many here on this site, and even others not participating here, had their doubts begin while engaged in so called spiritual activity, with absolutely no contact to apostate literature or even their thoughts?

I am one of those whose doubts began particularly while serving at Bethel. That was over 10 years ago. Apparently, I should've taken that advice and cut myself off from the org then, as this was the source of my doubts.

But I digress. Thank you freeminds for providing this compilation. I hope it will be a source of help to many, if not all, that read it.

CoC

13

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 04-24-2011 WT Study (RIGHTEOUSNESS)

by blondie in

jw
friends

1. what will help us to follow the tracks of righteousness?.

3. how can we learn more about gods righteousness?.

conform???.

Crisis of Conscience

Thanks Blondie, especially for the "extra" research that provided the constant flip-flops we are used to, but may not have realized.

CoC

8

interesting for gb/anointed do they know they wrote this since the believe thier imperfect men running the org. but not according to this tidbit

by TheLoveDoctor in

jw
friends

so it can be seen that a person does not become alive from gods standpoint until such time as he is free from condemnation resulting from sinfulness.

in the case of those who will rule with jesus christ, jehovah god, on the basis of his sons sacrifice, declares them righteous and thus views them as being perfect, without sin, while yet in the flesh on earth.

(rom.

Crisis of Conscience

Interesting. No wonder they never make mistakes! Oh wait, there was that time...................... and also that........................... Ah! Too many to list.

Thanks for another BS quote from the "chosen" ones.

CoC

43

HBO: Game of Thrones

by leavingwt in

i haven't read the wildly popular books, but i've found the new hbo television series, game of thrones to be quite entertaining.

so far, two episodes have aired, and i think i'm hooked.

there are more than a few interesting characters, both good, bad and in between.

Crisis of Conscience

My brother in law just told me about this show. I'm too heavily involved in Dexter and Spartacus right now to start another show. But this is one to add to the list IMO. Thanks LWT!

Episode 1 seems to be working at this link - http://mobilevids.org/gameofthrones.html

If it doesn't work, try mobilevids.org and search under the TV section.

Hope that can help someone.

CoC

21

Pangs of Conscience - June 2011 KM

by dozy in

jw
friends

there is an article in the latest kingdom ministry about counting time spent in the ministry.

one comment surprised me - it says that counting time wrongly can lead to "pangs of conscience".

a bit of an ott expression , i can't help thinking.. the only pangs the local pioneers are concerned about here are hunger pangs as they head to dunkin donuts for a 40 minute "break".

Crisis of Conscience

@ Lunatic Faith - LOL But I kid you not. I knew a pioneer during the 90hr times that confessed to actually doing that. I wondered why it seemed so easy for her. And yet here I struggled to get my time as a pioneer. I was never able to get my conscience to allow me to do it at the time. Now, I just think I would.

CoC